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CATEGORY LISTINGS > DETROIT > 2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost. [ REFRESH ]
Thread Title: 2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
Created On Thursday January 01, 2009 17:51
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.
  2004 freightliner 14L. detroit Ghost.


bulldogfan

Posts: 5
Joined: Jan 2009

Thursday January 01, 2009 17:51

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I have a 2004 "Emissions" 60 series. The truck has 616,000 miles and runs good, most of the time. I have had a lot of engine work done, Including new liners due to cavitation, computer, pistons, a few egr valves, etc. The new gremlin is as follows. Start the truck cold, and she is idling fine, then you will hear it start to skip after a few mins. Rev it up to 1200 or so, let it back to idle and it will run smooth for a second, then back to rough idle. Turn the ac on and it seems to smooth out. All the while the exhaust is changing sounds from quiet to a jet engine getting ready for take off, then back to quiet. Next drive away, at low rpms, say under1300, even under a load no skip. Wind it up a bit say 1500 plus and black smoke will appear and you can feel it skip. Obviously more noticable with a heavy load. i took it to a detroit dealer and they said"needs three injectors, and a new injector harness." Well i read a lot of posts and have checked the wires in the battery box. BINGO found a broken wire at the fusable link. Fixed wire and no go. OK, next pulled the valve cover off and visually checked all the wires. ran my hands over every wire and checked every connection, seems all good. Next pulled both black and grey harneses of the computer and bingo found two white wires that had rubbed against the fuel filter housing. This has got to be it. Nope, repaired the wires taped them all up, and re routed them. Even put a little dielectric grease on the connectors. Well I guess I did all this, because I just cant believe that a truck that runs so good normally could need injectors and a new harness. Bye the way I pull a walking floor trailer and even when I engage the pto set the cruise idle at 1100 rpm and pump off the load, the engine will sit there and purr like a kitten for a half an hour! Thank you for reading. Any ideas?

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marc7242

Posts: 254
Joined: Sep 2008

Friday January 02, 2009 06:53

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Any check engine light on when this is happening?
marc

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ctinnovation

Posts: 168
Joined: Oct 2007

Friday January 02, 2009 16:24

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Hello;; This seems to be a common problem. Question,,,Why did they say the 3 injectors where bad ? Did they have them out?? Are they original,,or have they been replaced? I no they like to guess at the customers expense alot of the time and if the new injectors dont fix it they will tell ya they were wore out anyway !! Have you noticed a drop in turbo pressure at all ? If the turbo is getting bad it will not supply enough air with the fuel and this will make it smoke. Stupid question but ,,,did you check the air system for clogged up filters or holes in the air cooler? When you had the valve cover off did ya check to see if any of the injector bolts were loose. Another thing ya can check is take the suction line off the fuel pump and the return line off the back of the head and run them into a 5 gallon bucket. Start the engine and watch for air bubbles. There should be none. Better yet just remove the return line from the back of the head and run that into a bucket.The best way to find the miss is on a dino plugged into the computer and do a cut out test,,it should show the week cyl and then go from there. One more thing,,,while the engine is running (and the truck stopped,,lol ) grab the wires going into the computer and firmly tug and twist the plugs,,,it could still be a bad wire somewhere,,,infact it could be a whole lot of things but at least it might narrow it down a bit. Hope that helps PS ,,,I have also seen a tps sensor do things like that too,,borrow someone elses and try it.!! Take care

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bulldogfan

Posts: 5
Joined: Jan 2009

Friday January 02, 2009 18:11

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Well, I have nver had a check engine light come on. They did scan the comp and no codes came back. The injectors have all been replaced over the years. They did the cutout test and what they said was that they could not rule out any one bad injector. Which is why I questioned their thought of replacing three. I have wiggled just about every wire in the engine compartment to no avail. While driving the truck today I watched the idle carefully. It idles at 600 rpm and after driving it for a little while it sounded really rough. You dont feel it at all, just a lot of rough cackling. idle it up to 900 and it is smooth? I had another driver say to me that it seemed to him that this all started after detroit had to replace the whole egr assembly including cooler at their expense? Coincidence, i don't know. I gues what is so hard to figure out is what is it? The truck has plenty of power, the turbo pressure seems very good, air filter is new, not a constant problem, and no computer codes. All the injector bolts seem tight. What would cause the rough idle. And tps? throttle position sensor right?

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GoneFishen

Posts: 1325
Joined: Jan 2007

Friday January 02, 2009 20:44

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When starting the truck in the AM pump the brake pedal until you have less than 80 psi air pressure. Check fluids. Start the truck and have the hood open and walk over to the R side of the engine. The fan should be on. Now when 100 psi air pressure is reached look at the actuator on the turbo. It MUST rise up and the turbo start screaming and the fan should shut up. Keep watching the turbo actuator and make sure it is steady. No wiggles, no air leaks, no pulsating movements, just a constant steady presssure. You can move the lever up and down with a small screwdriver to test operation. It MUST stay up when the engine is running and have air pressure over 100 psi. If not you have either a bad actuator on the turbo [requires turbo replacement] or a bad V-Pod on the side of the engine. DDEC 4 engine had a prolem with loose wires on the terminal ends for the injectors waire harness. Air in the fuel will not create codes on a Series 60, just a Mercedes engine. Air being sucked from a poor sealing fuel filter or partially plugged filter will cause your symptoms.

-------------------------
DDA tech for 30 years,all 2 cycle,series 60,50 mbe also.
1995 F250, 191k mi.
Lost Wages, Nv

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bulldogfan

Posts: 5
Joined: Jan 2009

Saturday January 03, 2009 08:58

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Thank you all for your input. I have not checked the actuator yet. that sounds interresting. I will do so on monday. What is the "v pod"? also I have heard on caterpillars that a cheap fuel filter will cause problems. The truck has been running the red baldwins. Any good? I had seen a cat c15 also have similar issues with a cracked fuel filter housing letting air into the system. Does this happen on detroits? And finally do I operate the acuator on the turbo with the motor running or off? Thank you for your time!

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stump

Posts: 772
Joined: Aug 2007

Saturday January 03, 2009 10:00

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Do it with the engine running.Baldwin filters are good I use them with no complaints.

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marc7242

Posts: 254
Joined: Sep 2008

Saturday January 03, 2009 10:16

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Is anything unusual happening with the coolant? Is there soot in the overflow tank or does in sometimes boil over? Pull the hose where the EGR gases come in and check for anything that's not supposed to be there such as white crust or coolant slime. Should be only black soot. The black smoke to me indicates an air related problem more than a fuel related problem. Usually when you suck air or lose supply pressure the smoke is white. Gonefishin is on to something with turbo actuator system. Also, even though you have changed the air filter, inspect all of the intake ducting as well as the charge air cooler and CAC piping for obstructions. I know you can't imagine how anything could've gotten in there but its more common than you think to find all sorts of foreign objects.
Marc

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marc7242

Posts: 254
Joined: Sep 2008

Saturday January 03, 2009 10:32

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Also, for no more trouble than its worth, I would replace that injector harness, espcially since it now has a repair in it. These can go bad without an obvious visible problem
marc

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bulldogfan

Posts: 5
Joined: Jan 2009

Saturday January 03, 2009 13:11

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I will look at all the hoses again. No soot in the resivoir. I did just change the pressure tank yesterday do to a crack in the seam. I had to remove the egr line that runs over the engine to pull the valve cover, if i recall right it was just nice and black. I am sure I can replace the harness, it just looked like a real pain to get at on the back of the head how it attatches. And finally do you thing the harness could cause even an occasional rough idle?

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marc7242

Posts: 254
Joined: Sep 2008

Saturday January 03, 2009 17:25

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That harness I would say is the #1 cause of an intermittent rough idle, but in that case it almost always sets the check eninge light. There are alot of places it can chafe, and the ends get loose. The the terminals also spread at the ECM end and the wire can become loose from the pin inside the plastic connector. Did they say which three injectors? Each bank of three injectors (front and rear) shares a common wire and a fault in any of the three can make the bank fail. This is usually accompanied by a check engine light. If you google detroit diesel flash codes a web page with a Detroit EGR manual will come up. Read this and go through the trouble shooting steps. I could be wrong but I'm leaning towars EGR problem in your case.
Marc

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marc7242

Posts: 254
Joined: Sep 2008

Saturday January 03, 2009 17:35

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As a general rule in all diesels, black smoke is caused when you run out of oxygen before all fuel is burned, therefore a lack of oxygen (as caused by excessive EGR flow or some sort of air contamination such as vaporized coolant). White smoke is caused by insufficient combustion temperatures, such as on a cold day or when you starve for fuel- air in fuel, low pressure, etc. The white smoke is caused when not enough fuel is injected to complete the combustion process. Black smoke can also be caused by uncontrolled overfueling, such as a cracked injector tip or leaking injector cup that allows fuel to enter the combustion chamber. Did they give a detailed explanation as to how they arrived at the conclusion you need three injectors? Something else you can try is taking an infared thermometer and measuring temps across the manifold. 1 should be same as 6, 2 the same as 5, 3 the same as 4. A difference of much more than 50 degrees could mean a problem. A weak injector will show colder, a leaking injector will show hotter.
Marc

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bulldogfan

Posts: 5
Joined: Jan 2009

Saturday January 03, 2009 19:34

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I was kind of thinking there is a connection between egr and the rough idle and skipping at high rpms. I have experience with gas engines getting a chunk of carbon stuck in the plunger and causing them to run poorly. is there a way to bypass the egr, just to test this theory? And also what tells the egr valve to open and close? Usually on a gas motor it will only open if a few components are right, like engine load, vacuum, temp, etc. No they could not tell me which three injector are bad which leads me to believe that they would shoot in the dark, and if they missed, swap them to the other three? And no I have never seen a check engine light. On the dash there is a diagnosis switch. Can I some how pull codes from it, if any, by that switch?

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marc7242

Posts: 254
Joined: Sep 2008

Saturday January 03, 2009 20:19

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You can get the flash codes off of the dash, they will come as two digit codes, but if they have never been cleared and light doesn't come on when its happening, they probably won't help. The EGR valve opens under certain conditions as commanded by ECM through the VPOD module(s) Gonefishin was talking about. The EGR valve and the VGT are both opereated pneumatically by compressed air, this is the jet engine noise you are hearing. The VPODs regulate air to the turbo and EGR valve- leaks and sticking linkages cause these systems to fail. They usually self-monitor fairly well but and will throw codes but not always. There is an EGR pressure sensor with small tubes running to it. These tubes sometimes plug with carbon and its not a bad idea to pull these off and check them. Its a fairly complicated system, check out this website for the manual:
http://diesel.btc.ctc.edu/Engines/Detroit%20Diesel/EGR%20s60techguide.pdf
marc

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Newatthis

Posts: 1
Joined: Mar 2014

Wednesday March 19, 2014 16:01

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I purchased the same kind of truck that bulldogfan is talking about and and began to have the same problems and would like to know if you were able to find a solution to it. Please let me know because I have not been able to get any straight answer from any of the shops I have been to. I thank you in advance

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CATEGORY LISTINGS > DETROIT [ REFRESH ]

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